The Robot Factory

Caleb: I woke up not quite on the wrong
side of the bed, felt groggy for a while,

even after a coffee and couldn't focus.

I was like, I don't want to do anything.

So I decided that I would go for a walk.

But the goal that I would go get a coffee
so I could at least motivate myself to do

Jonathan: Yeah.

Caleb: Um,

Jonathan: isn't the coffee
shop immediately downstairs?

Like that's a, that's a

Caleb: no, that place is closed,
which is maybe good cuz I, so I,

I ended up walking on, on campus,

Jonathan: Oh, okay.

Caleb: which is nicer to walk in
any way, but gave me time to, to

ponder and process my thoughts.

And

Jonathan: just a second.

Are you, am I recording you telling me
that you're about to become a Buddhist

monk and you're gonna go on a meditation
retreat for the next six and a half years?

Is that what's gonna happen?

Caleb: I don't know if I'll
go to a meditation retreat.

I don't think it was, it was
that insightful or life changing.

I think it was good to get
me in the right mindset.

Jonathan: Got it.

Caleb: Sometimes it's nice to think
about things without being actually

physically sat in front of the.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Caleb: gives you the chance to maybe
explore some ideas and whatnot.

On this one project, there's lots of
like separate pieces that I'm not quite

sure how they're gonna fit together.

I also got my coffee, so
that was, that was nice too.

Jonathan: So what was your epiphany then?

Caleb: It was just kind of,
I did some coding in my mind,

Jonathan: Oh, mind coding.

Caleb: and I was like, you know, I started
out with like some problems and how, how,

how these things should work together.

and through, through the walk,
it was able to mostly, mostly

figure it out or at least, uh,
like, you know, general solution.

So now I have to do real coding
with my hands, but the mind

coding has been done, but

Jonathan: Is that the end of the story?

You just did mind coding and now
you're gonna do finger coding.

Caleb: I think it was,
I, I also think it's,

Jonathan: I was hoping for something
really quite a bit more profound than

Caleb: okay.

Well, As I was walking, I saw a single
snowflake fall I noticed it's it's

precise, perfect crystalline structure.

Jonathan: This is how your
story goes in reality.

I went for a rock . I went for a
walk, thought about some stuff to do.

I'm gonna do that stuff.

Caleb: Caleb discovers things humans
have been doing for thousands of

years, and it's like, why is no one
doing this This is such a good idea.

Jonathan: Oh,

Welcome back to The Robot Factory, a
podcast where we record ourselves to build

some software to get it acquired or more.

Usually not really recording
anything because we're too busy.

, I'm your host, as always,
Jonathan Bowers and with me as.

Caleb: host.

Well, as usually as we.

Caleb Sharp

Jonathan: This feels like we have no
interest in being here whatsoever.

Caleb: I'm your other host, Caleb Sharp.

Jonathan: well, I can share.

I can share a few updates.

Caleb: okay.

Okay.

Jonathan: Um, so I was talking
with someone yesterday who said,

have you recorded any podcasts
in the last couple of months?

And I felt like that's a bit of
a jab, , but he gen genuinely.

He doesn't, he doesn't

subscribe.

Caleb: passive

Jonathan: Yeah.

Yeah.

Caleb: or

Jonathan: he doesn't subscribe.

He's like, I only, I only know about
it through the email newsletter.

And I thought, oh, well shoot, I have
not emailed out on the newsletter.

Uh, in, in.

Many weeks.

So I need to do that because
for him alone, uh, hi Nick.

Um, , he's the only way he knows
about, uh, new, new content.

The other thing is we, the newsletter
that I use is I use Convert Kit.

Um, which is kind of pricey.

It's like $30 a month or something.

They don't have a free tier, but I
hate, ugh, I just don't like MailChimp.

It's such a pain to use.

There's so much, there's so much
cruft in the user interface.

I know they've made it,
they've improved it lately.

Um, but I don't like it, so I'm
trying to find something new.

I think I'm gonna use substack Do you,
do you subscribe to any sub substacks?

I think they're called sub.

Caleb: I don't subscribe to,
isn't it, it's not quite like

medium, but isn't it a similar.

Thing.

Jonathan: I'd say, yeah, maybe in that
they have a, like a network and there's

a discovery mechanism built into substack
so you can discover other people's

content and some of the people that are
on it really like, you know, Uh, really

like the platform cuz it, it sort of
surfaces, um, interesting content as

they, they grow their audience, um,
through substack's algorithm or whatever.

Um, but it's also, I think, I think
it's or was originally meant for maybe

journalists or writers or something to,
to be able to provide monetized content.

So it's really easy to just charge
money for people to subscribe.

, which is cool.

I like, we're not gonna do that for ours.

Um, but they have a free tier.

Um, so I might save 20 or 30,
whatever the 20 or $30 a month that

we're paying and switch to substack.

Caleb: How, how does this fit in
with like the other, what is it?

Transistor, which we use for
actually publishing the podcasts.

Jonathan: Yeah, it does.

It doesn't really connect at all.

So the newsletter is just, um, so if you
subscribe to the podcast, you do that

with whatever podcast player you have.

I use Overcast on the iPhone.

Um, lots of people subscribe
through, um, Oh, shoot.

What is, what is the big music platform?

Spotify.

Goodness, . Lots of people
subscribe through Spotify.

Um, I think there's some
people that listen on, like

Google Podcasts or something.

Um, so whatever your podcast player,
uh, you just subscribe to the feed

and then whenever a new podcast
episode comes out, your podcast player

just automatically downloads that.

And then the newsletter is
something completely different.

just you could subscribe to the
newsletter and not subscribe

to the podcast and vice versa.

I think there's a pretty significant
overlap to audience, listeners of

this podcast and that newsletter,
the Robot Factory Newsletter,

This episode will come out probably
just before holiday season, So I

wanna, I want to get your thoughts
on some ideas that I have then

Caleb: Okay.

Jonathan: of related to what we're
doing for the holiday season.

So every year we try to
come up with really fun.

Uh, very high effort
gifts to give to clients.

Last year, we made, uh, we made puzzles
for our big, like our big clients.

Um, so you and I, well
you, you rendered a robot.

This toy, was it a toy?

I can't remember what it was.

It was a toy retro style

Caleb: yeah, yeah, like an old,
old toy made a 3D model it.

Jonathan: Yeah, and we put it in, we
put it in, we just found some stock

imagery on like up splash or wherever.

And, um, you would pose the
robot in, in whatever position.

I kind of wanted it, and then we would,
uh, put it into the, into the photo.

Um, so we had one, uh, we have,
we do some work with cattle.

Uh, wh we do some work with ranchers.

Um, so we, we made one with
a, a field with a cow and.

I think the robot was like
reaching out to pet it.

And then we made, um, for our, digital
health, client, uh, we made this scene

which looks like the point of view of
somebody being operated on and these

four surgeons plus a robot looking
down at them and we turned them into

puzzles and then we sent them off.

And it was a lot of work cuz
you were doing some modeling and

like some weird rendering and I
was doing some photo editing and

trying to order all this stuff.

. Anyways, it was super fun.

This year, uh, we're a little
bit behind cuz normally we'll,

we'll have done all this.

Um, but for whatever reason,
and I'm not entirely sure why

we're kinda late getting to it.

Um, but this year, uh, one of the things
we're doing is using AI to generate

art, to put on our greeting cards.

And so I've been having a ton of
fun generating images of like,

uh, Santa, if it was a samurai
or, um, what else did I do?

I did a cute, cute reindeer
in the style of Pixar.

Um, I did a schematic of a giant robot,
um, a Lego model of a robot, and.

People and snow.

That one's kind of weird.

AI is a little funny.

Oh, I did a cyborg Santa.

Um, that one's scary looking.

Anyway, so I've been,
I've been building these.

building these images, having a ton of fun
with it, and also in the back of my mind,

thinking of like different, different,
uh, little tiny, little business ideas.

So one of the ideas that I have is, uh,
like back to the puzzle thing, is to

just, I mean, I guess this isn't really
a business, it's just like generate an

image with AI and then send you a puzzle.

But you could

Caleb: even less, less of a
business now that we don't

have to manually make the art.

Jonathan: Yeah, . Um, but it would be
cool, like I want, I, some of these,

some of the images that I made are neat
and I kind of wanna do them as a puzzle

and I wondered if, ah, if we just like
hooked this all up together and just made

it really easy for someone to just buy
a puzzle of some, something they made.

But I think, I guess that means they
have to be, uh, AI prompt engineers.

So maybe that's not a very good.

I don't know.

Caleb: I think AI prompt engineers
is giving people way too much credit

Jonathan: it's, it's hard though.

It's hard, like I know it's not
a ton of work, but you gotta know

how to do it in order for it to
get, in order to get good results.

And then, and then you gotta figure
out, you gotta know how to take it and.

Feed it back into the AI
to have it do other things.

Like you can do some out painting.

Like if you come up with a good image, how
do you use that image that AI is generated

to generate different versions of that
image or, um, like extended, you know,

if you wanted to make this like really
cool long, um, panoramic or something

i, basically, all my ideas are versions
of that , AI generated puzzles,

AI generated full print t-shirts,

Caleb: Uh, AI generated t-shirt.

Should be, it should just be
random AI or that no one sees

until they actually get the shirt.

Jonathan: Well that's, that was what
I was maybe thinking is that you have

to buy before you see what it is.

I mean, you can do some cool stuff, like
you can generate, uh, like psychedelic

patterns and things like that.

That would be, you know, it wouldn't
be like, oh, this, this . I wanted a

picture of a Santa and rendered me.

Awful, like four-eyed monster.

I don't want to wear that.

Um, but if we generated, you know,
patterns or, uh, I don't know if

it can generate repeating patterns
like, um, like seamless tiles.

I don't know if we can do that or not.

Caleb: Hmm.

Jonathan: That's my idea.

, one of my ideas

Caleb: We should use
it to generate a logo.

Jonathan: there's a, there's a super
cool plugin that is invite only at

the moment cuz it's just launched.

Um, magician.design.

It's a plugin for Figma.

Uh, Figma is the design tool that
we use and it can generate AI icons

and you just tell it, give it a
prompt, and it generates an icon

for you, which is pretty neat.

Um, I've requested access.

I don't have access to it yet,
so I haven't tried it out.

Uh, but it's, it's super neat.

Caleb: feels slightly unnecessary
given how many icons exist,

Jonathan: The, yeah, there are a lot of
icons, but I often, often ra like run

into situations where there isn't an
icon for the thing I'm trying to express.

And, and just to find it
is, is a fair bit of work.

Um, so to be able to describe
it and get something back

right away is very appealing.

Caleb: Hmm.

Yeah, I

Jonathan: I don't know how much I'd be
willing to pay for that, but um, if it

was free, I would use the heck out of it.

Caleb: Honestly, it could.

It might just be a search tool,

Jonathan: Yeah.

Well, yeah, I could just search . Uh,
but sometimes the, the icons don't exist.

Like there was one, uh, some, one of
the examples that he tweeted about was

a phone but with a Santa hat on it.

And I thought that was, that's kind
of cool, like to generate Holiday

themed icons for your, for your UI
to swap in at, you know, December

time or Halloween time or whatever.

Caleb: if you, yeah, if you
don't have like a designer

who can just illustrate icons.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Caleb: Hmm.

Interesting.

Jonathan: Um, so let me, let me pitch
you this other idea that I have and

it's, it's probably something that,
that is more code, code code, like.

So one of the, one of the design tools
that we use to share designs with the team

we're just, we were just trying it out.

I'm not gonna name it because, um,
it's really early stage and I, I

just don't think we're gonna use it.

Um, just cuz

Caleb: It's not that good.

They don't deserve our shout

out

Jonathan: I just, I don't want
to, I don't want to get whatever.

Anyways.

Um, it's, it, it made it really easy to
take the designs from Figma and share

them with people and get comments on them.

Um, , but it's a little bit pricey
and whatever doesn't, doesn't

do quite what I want it to do.

And it's kind of restrictive
on the other end.

Like once you get it out of Figma
and into this platform, there's

only so much you can do with it.

So that gave me the idea of, and
because I've been exploring a lot of

Figma plugins, so they gave me the idea
of, uh, making a Figma plugin that.

All it does is take the, uh, screenshots
of the, of the frames within Figma.

So whatever your design is, um, which I'm,
I presume is really easy to do cuz I've

got like a bunch of APIs to use this or a
bunch of plugin to use this functionality.

So basically a plugin that lets you
essentially x not export, but like

feed any figma, frame any Figma
design and get it out into no code.

So take the image.

So say we've got a say, we've got a
a, a, a screen of a mobile, you know,

a mobile login screen, for example.

And I wanna share that
login screen with a client.

I wanna like open this plugin, click
on the frame and say export, export it.

And rather than have it like, go
to my desktop and then I gotta take

that file and email it to the client
or put it in something, um, I wanna

take it and have it drop into notion.

or if I wanna like wire it up
to put it into a coded document

or wire it up to like email.

And so the plugin itself, all it does
is give, give really easy access to

other no-code platforms to be able
to take that image or receive that

image as a, as an input to some other
automation that that has been built.

Caleb: Probably need some kind of backend
though to be able to do that, cuz I assume

Figma client plugins around the client.

Jonathan: They, I think they do run in
the client, but, so some of the platforms

like make for example, you can set up a
web hook that you can call and they give

you keys and all that kind of stuff.

And so you, I think you might be able
to hook it up directly to something

like make, if the web hook was, was
created or we'd have to build some

kind of make integration as well.

Um, I don't know how much
server code we'd have to build.

. Um, yeah.

Anyways, that's, that's
kind of like high level.

That's the idea.

What do you think of that thing?

Caleb: I don't know.

I'm of the opinion that downloading
a file and putting it somewhere

is not that much work, but,

Jonathan: It is not that much
work, but it's, it happens.

Here's the steps.

It is for me to, to, to send,
uh, send a file to a client.

I gotta right click on the
frame, go down to copy as.

PNG or something.

I can't remember what it is.

I think I could command
shift C once I click on it.

But anyways, click on the
frame command shift C, um, copy

it and then, or download it.

I can't remember this,
like another action.

Download it as a as a file.

And that puts it on my desktop.

I gotta do that again for
every screen that I wanna do.

So that's like two,
three clicks per screen.

And then once I have those files,
then I've gotta open up my email

client or whatever thing, and it's
probably the same person that I'm

emailing to every single time.

So I gotta open up my email client, type
in their name, or start to type in their

name, pick their name from the dropdown.

Uh, I still have to type
in a little message.

I have to type in a subject,
probably have to type in an

email, and then I send it to them.

And then when I get the response,
, um, it's only shared with me.

It's not gonna be shared with you.

It's not gonna be shared with
someone else on the team.

It, it's like a response
that comes in an email to me.

The other option is I paste
it into Slack, um, but I still

gotta pick the right channel.

But those, like on the other side, once
I've got that image out, um, picking,

picking where it needs to go is almost
always the same per project, right?

Like sometimes for a project,
we share that stuff in Slack.

Sometimes for a project, it's an
email, sometimes for a project,

we dump it into a notion document.

I was hoping to be able to use this, this
new tool to be able to deal with all that.

But it's, it's just a little bit too
restrictive for, for what needs to happen

and it requires somebody to sign up.

And some of them, I tried sharing it
with some folks who are like, really

new to this whole world and they're
like, I'm not signing up for this.

So like, I can't even share it with them.

Caleb: Yeah.

It might be tricky to make a tool
that's so flexible that it would

let you do all those things with.

Jonathan: But that's the thing is
it doesn't have to be flexible.

All it has to do is ex get it,
get it into a no-code platform,

like Make or Zapier or whatever.

And then from there I can wire it
up, do whatever I need it to do.

Caleb: I get.

Yeah.

But I guess then you still have to
do that work of wiring up and then,

I don't know, do you still have to
click the button for every frame?

How?

Jonathan: I'd, so the, the plugin
that I was using, um, you, you

still have to click each frame cuz
you've gotta select the frames.

But you can do that like with a,
like drag and select the whole.

, like do a big box.

Um, but you gotta click the frame.

But then once you've got the frame, you
just open the plug in and go share this.

And then it gives you a dropdown to
which project do you wanna share it to?

I would love for it to be sort of
automatic, like based on the, based on

the file that I'm in, but I just pick
the, pick the project that I'm in and

then it sends, that to the project.

So I think for a plugin, uh, I
would just click on the frames and.

Hit share inside the plugin, and it would
just, it would just send them, because

all of the, all of the, like routing and
deciding where it needs to go is handled

through my, uh, the, on the receiving
end through Make or Zapier or whatever.

I say, okay, if it's coming from this,
uh, this file or this project in the

in, in Figma, it needs to go to these
people or it needs to drop into Notion,

or it needs to be sent into this Slack
channel, and I just wire it all up.

It's very niche.

It's very niche.

It only really would make sense
for designers who are comfortable

working inside of no code, super niche

Caleb: Very niche.

It's an idea for sure.

Jonathan: All right, well, it's an idea.

Caleb: I feel like this is
something that only benefits you.

Jonathan: It may only benefit
me, but it would benefit me.

Caleb: Yeah,

Jonathan: I just think it would
not be a lot of work to build.

I don't know, I don't know how Figma
plugins work, but I think they just react

things and, um, if we don't have to deal
with a backend or much of a backend or

much of a UI for that matter, um, it
just makes things a little bit easier.

Caleb: Right.

Jonathan: you know what, maybe I'll
build a landing page for it and

describe what it could do and see
how many people sign up for it.

. Then we'll

Caleb: Yeah, don't, yeah, don't
oversell it though, cuz then we might

have to build impossible features

Jonathan: No, I'm gonna sell.

I'm gonna sell

Caleb: auto detects which
platform you wanna send to

based on how you're thinking.

Jonathan: Yes.

Yeah, it is true.

AI

Caleb: One button that does
exactly what you're thinking.

Be fun to try to make a Figma plugin.

But I don.

They all, most Figma
plugins I see are silly.

Jonathan: There's a lot of silly
ones in there, but there's a

lot of really awesome plugins.

Caleb: Yeah.

I.

Jonathan: stuff that, that, that's
maybe a little too specific for, for

me to actually use, cuz I haven't
really encountered some of the

problems that they're trying to solve.

Um, but there's some really, really
powerful, powerful plugins in there.

I, I use a bunch, quite regular,
like there's a, there's an Unsplash

plugin, which is just awesome.

Like, I just like grab it images
off an Unsplash, like that's

pretty obvious and pretty easy.

Um, I would love the same.

AI generated design or art.

So just like, I need a, I need
an image of a person smiling and

Caleb: ones for that, isn't there?

Jonathan: Yeah.

There are, yeah, there's plugins that do

that.

I

Caleb: half of the ones I see here are

AI things.

Jonathan: All right, well
think about that some more.

Just an idea I've written down.

Maybe I'll, maybe I'll build

Caleb: you, I mean, you could
take a stab at it, learn some

TypeScript while you're at it.

Jonathan: I'm almost done
learning my type script.

Caleb: Almost done.

You only started like a week ago.

Jonathan: like learning, like reading
the docu, like reading the document.

Caleb: Oh, okay.

Okay.

Like I, I'm almost, I
almost know TypeScript.

Jonathan: I'm almost done.

Caleb: I think that's how

Jonathan: I'm 80% of the way through
acquiring all of this knowledge.

Uh, all right.

You wanna do, uh, our outro

Caleb: Sure.

You've been listening
to The Robot Factory.

I've been your host, Caleb Sharp.

Jonathan: and I've been your
other host, Jonathan Bowers.

Caleb: See

Jonathan: a great holiday season
and we will talk to you next year.

Caleb: I guess.

Yeah.

Well, happy New Year