The Robot Factory

Jonathan: Sorry, what?

What show do you wanna watch?

Daila: Well, I wanted to watch that.

I dunno, it's like the
rise of the Pink Ladies.

Jonathan: What is that?

Daila: It's like a, it's like a Grease.

Jonathan: Oh,

Daila: What is it called?

What spinoff?

Kind of, it's like a, yeah, about the rise
of the Pink Ladies and Tennesa is very

into that, but another streaming service.

So I'm just starting to stick
to my guns and being like, we're

watching just good old paid cable.

it.

We're watching commercials we're, yeah,

Jonathan: Commercials are the best.

That's how you find out about all the
things that you're supposed to buy.

Daila: I actually, I love commercials.

I do because if it's a good commercial
and you can make me like chuckle or

appreciate it, I will buy your product.

Just out of principle.

Even if I don't need it, I'll buy it.

Jonathan: That's, that's,
that's how it works.

Like that's what, that's our role in

Caleb: so interesting because I, if
I see a commercial for something,

I make a note to never buy it.

Daila: Really, but what
if it makes you laugh?

And I'm like, that's

Caleb: It won't, it won't make me laugh
because I know it was made in a boardroom.

Nothing about it.

It can't be funny by principal

Daila: I always picture cuz you
watch those shows of like the

marketing ad people that somebody's
like, I have a great idea.

And then

Caleb: and they're
always the worst people.

Daila: no.

Caleb: shows are about how, how they're
such awful people and they do anything

Daila: Oh, you, you watch
different shows than me.

I watched the one where it's like the
person who just really wants to make

a, a splash and they're creative.

Jonathan: Are you basing your
perception of reality of the real

world based on what you see on tv?

Daila: 100%

Jonathan: Oh, oh, both of you,

Daila: both of us.

Yes.

Jonathan: Caleb for the other,
for like the opposite reasons.

Ah.

Caleb: maybe.

Daila: this is, remember back in
the day we said we were gonna do a

podcast where Caleb talks about all the
horrible things that happened to him,

and I talk about all the good things

Jonathan: this is that podcast?

Daila: I, I listened to this
podcast this week, guys.

Jonathan: yeah.

Daila: uh, and I enjoyed it.

Jonathan: Ah,

Daila: we have two new listeners.

Jonathan: what,

Daila: I, I made them,

Jonathan: you made them?

You.

Oh, you forced them to listen?

Daila: No, no.

Like I actually made the

Jonathan: the listeners.

Caleb: Wow.

Daila: of them didn't
even know I had a podcast

Jonathan: ah,

Daila: or was on a podcast.

And both of them have subscribed
and Tannessa gave us five stars.

Um, and.

Jonathan: I haven't
even looked at reviews.

Caleb: you can, right?

Daila: Well, I don't know.

On Spotify, she gave us five stars
and she said she would rate us

based legitimately on how she felt.

And she's a tough critic

Jonathan: Oh yeah.

Okay.

I don't buy it.

I think she's, I think she's, there's

Caleb: me also pump.

Pump the numbers.

Daila: Yep.

So I did say I'd shout them out.

So Olivia and Tennessa, mummy loves

Jonathan: Yay.

Olivia Tena.

We love having you as listeners.

Uh, thank you so much.

Thank you so much.

Welcome to the Robot Factory.

This is a podcast where Caleb and
Daila complain about the various things

in life they like and don't like.

Um, we also try to build some
software to try and sell it.

I am one of your co-hosts, Jonathan
Bowers, and with me as usual.

Caleb: Caleb Sharp.

Daila: And Daila Dufford.

Caleb: What don't look so disappointed.

Jonathan: I don't know why you insist
on speaking in a way that makes it

difficult to deal with the audio files.

You're just like, way too fast or,

Caleb: oh, I do have a problem
with speaking fast, but I think I

have that problem in real life too,

Jonathan: yeah.

I don't find you speak too fast in
real life, but, um, Sometimes on the

podcast you just rattle through things.

That's fine.

It's fine.

We'll leave it in.

Um, we have, so we have two new listeners.

So LA not last week.

We, we skipped recording last week for,
um, scheduling reasons, but previous

week we got two emails from listeners,
two people messaged in so Chris's mom,

Daila: Chris's mom listens too.

Jonathan: lessons too.

She, she emailed, she
emailed in, uh, Carrie Ann.

She emailed and said she wants us to
talk a little bit about, uh, some of

the history of two Story Robot, because
she remembers when it was just two.

Slash three of us.

Um, so she wants to hear that, that story.

So we'll do that at some point.

Um, and she had some lovely things to say.

Uh, I also think she
likes to buy our swag.

She is a big swag fan.

Uh, she was one of the few people
that bought, we made masks once

at the beginning of the pandemic.

We custom made some
mass with custom fabric.

It was very, very cool.

I was very excited about those.

Uh, she bought some of those.

Um, yeah, so she made some
content requests, um, which we'll,

we will do so Hi Chris's mom.

Daila: Hi Chris's mom.

That's awesome.

Jonathan: uh, and then, and
then, so the other email that

we got was from my friend Chad.

Um, he is a, uh, operations
person at a startup tech startup.

He liked the hiring app idea.

Um, and we, Daila and I, we
had a conversation with him

yesterday, the day before.

Um, and just kind of chatted
through like what, what we do and

why we built it and what they do.

So they're also very values oriented.

They've defined, they've spent a
bunch of time defining their values.

They have, um, we call 'em
values in action statements.

Like, we will do this.

Uh, this is like, this is
how we live our values.

Um, so they have those as well.

Uh, which is, which is super cool.

And so we just kind of talked through
how our approach to hiring, is in line

with what they want to do for hiring too.

And he, yeah, he liked
the idea of the app.

He gave us a ton of feedback, a bunch of
different ideas, and it was super cool.

Daila: I loved it.

I thought it was wonderful.

I, if Chad is listening, I feel like
Chad should have a podcast cuz I swear

I could have listened to him for hours.

It was so interesting and

Jonathan: Caleb, he, he
ended up having to use props.

He, like, he, he had a, what I
thought was a whiteboard behind him,

but I guess it wasn't, but I thought
he was gonna like, yeah, get, get

the marker out and start drawing.

And then he had these, they,
they looked like petri dishes.

I don't know why he has those,
but he was, yeah, it was making

a Venn diagram with Petri dishes.

It was, it was wonderful.

Uh, it was super awesome.

Yeah.

It was some, yeah.

Good.

What, what were some of the
things that you felt like you

learned from that conversation,

,
Daila: I really like to hear his history
and what he's done and, uh, like the arc

of companies and, and where this product
maybe fits in with types of companies.

Um, he was, I, I thought he gave
us a lot of great information

about people who might be
interested in a product like this.

Um, probably not your like, A thousand
employee company, but a small company

who's really looking for that values
fit, um, or small to medium company.

So that was nice.

It, it kind of opened up my
eyes about what like yeah.

Target kind of user

Jonathan: Yeah.

Yeah.

Our target market.

Daila: yeah.

So, so that was fantastic and
I, I love hearing when people.

Share values, um, with us and have spent
that time building values for their

company and how important that is to them.

So, uh, it, it was just really neat.

I, yeah, again, I'd like to
hear him talk more about it.

So

a podcast, Chad,

Jonathan: it make, I, I
swear he had a podcast.

Daila: he, he could be a special

Jonathan: I cut.

Yeah.

Well, we'll have 'em on.

Sure.

We'll chat with them once we, once
we, uh, get some more product built.

What, like, what do we
have to do for the product?

Like we don't have to do a ton more.

Daila: no, we don't.

Um, yesterday Clark sent me a video and
MVP is, I, I think it's there, it's ready

for like, if people wanna beta test it

or just like mess around in it.

Um, us like another day of development
and then maybe they can sign up for a

beta test email in if you're listening

Jonathan: I don't, I don't know how
many people we have who listen, who

are in a position to hire some folks,

Daila: but maybe they know somebody.

Jonathan: yeah, actually Do either
of your kids, are they, do they have

roles coming up in the next couple
of months they wanna hire for?

Daila: kids,

Yesa is a major company already.

Actually, she could be, but

Jonathan: Oh, she's probably, yeah, she's
probably too advanced for, for what we

Daila: She is.

Jonathan: an HR

Daila: Fortune 500 and, uh,

Jonathan: Yeah.

The, I think one of the interesting
things that, uh, came up when we were

chatting with Chad, uh, two, two things
that actually, uh, stuck out to me.

One was where.

In the life cycle of a company,
um, a company would be that

they would be a good fit for us.

And it's, it's not, it's probably
not like your first hire.

Um, cause I don't think, I don't
think you've gone through some of

the, some of the necessary, issues
that I think you would benefit from.

But, uh, potentially, I think
potentially at that low end, if

you're just making your first hire,
I think there's some opportunity.

Um, but not those huge
companies that have.

HR teams and hiring committees
and have like this whole process.

Um, it's before that.

It's, it's just past the, the stage
of I've got a spreadsheet and me and

the other founder and a couple of
the employees are like gathering,

you know, applications and throwing
them into a spreadsheet and sort of

like willy-nilly just going through
and, and ranking some things.

Um, we're past that, past that stage.

Um, so I feel like that that was
really helpful to just sort of like

clarify who we might be targeting.

I don't think it's just
tech companies though.

Like I don't think that's the case.

Um, so I like that.

And then the other, the other thing
that, that we talked about a little

bit, which had me thinking kind of
the rest of the day or the rest of the

night was, um, even just coming up with
these questions that we would ask, uh,

And just to remind everyone, so how,
how this, how this works is, uh, the

way we hire is we post a job, but we
don't ask for resume and cover letter.

We ask you to answer three
values oriented questions.

Um, first there it's pretty short.

Um, there's like a
paragraph each to to write.

Um, but coming up with those
questions is actually pretty hard.

Um, and e e even, even for us, like.

I mean, we tried this, we, we
kind of used the same questions.

Um, but there, one of the
questions is not a good question

and so we need to change it.

And, but that's probably one of
the, one of the hurdles to adopting

something like this is what, what
kind of questions should I ask?

And so the thing that I thought
was interesting that came

up was, can we provide some
resources to help define those?

Can we just define the questions?

Upfront, that might be kind
of nice, although that feels a

little cookie cutter perhaps.

Um, and is there an opportunity for,
uh, community around some of this?

Like, I would love for, for Chad and I.

To, to be chatting about this
and saying like, oh yeah, no, I

love, I love what you've done.

Like these, these questions that you're
using, feel like some of them align

with what, what we would want to do.

And just, just getting some feedback
with each other around the hiring

process and how to, how to onboard
new employees or hire new employees

or recruit new employees for, uh,
organization that's very values oriented.

And so I love, I love the idea of
potentially, yeah, just finding

some like-minded folks and just
putting them in together and

seeing sort of what comes out.

Um, so that, that stuck out to me
as, as a really interesting, um, I

dunno if it's a feature of the product
necessarily, but like something that

we could try to work with, uh, or
work towards within our product.

Daila: Yeah, I like that idea.

I love the idea of communities,
um, of any kind, but around a, a

product like this, being able to
work with each other and create kind

of that little values ecosystem.

So that's a neat idea that they could
come up with suggested questions or,

Jonathan: yeah.

As a small company, we have, we have
some, some things that we do that

we've got very strong opinions about.

Like, this is how we should do things,
other things we don't know how to do.

And to have a, like a
guide that says, just.

You know, if you're
anything like this, right?

Like getting some process or some like
loose, loose ideas just off the shelf

and say, ah, that, that completely
resonates with what I want to do.

Let me just follow this,
the script, so to speak.

Um, modify a few things that, that I
need to modify and just run with it.

So somebody's already kind of
done the thinking for us, um,

that that would be really.

Really exciting for, for
certain kinds of things.

Right?

And I think, I think for some
organizations hiring their fifth or

sixth, or maybe the first person, like,
that might be one of them is how to do

this better and why, why is it better?

Or at least what, not better,
but why did we like it and why

does you know Chad like it?

And, and all these, all the other
customers that we're gonna go and

get, um, why do they like that?

Daila: I, I also liked thinking more
about what the product does, how Chad

really likes the fact that it anonymizes,

Jonathan: Anonymizes, anonymizes

Daila: isn't that a Muppet thing?

Anyways, phenomena.

Um, you can smile, Caleb.

You're trying not to.

Jonathan: he doesn't know what that is.

That's from the Muppet Show.

He's.

Daila: You know it

Caleb: It's actually, so it's actually
originally a song that's older, that's

like an Italian song or something.

Jonathan: A what?

Oh my goodness.

Okay.

We're getting schooled
by a 20 year old here

Caleb: Yep, yep.

Jonathan: Muppet history.

Daila: um, but it, it's great
because I think we've talked in

previous podcast about the first
time we did this without an app.

My job was to, uh, anonymize
it and that took a lot of

time and me really trying to.

Go through all of their answers and remove
anything that could, that could hint at

who they were or any like background.

So this just kind of, we'll do it for you.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Yeah, just, just cut all that out.

I, I had thought, you know, I've
got some ideas around how to,

how to make that even better.

I won't share on the podcast
just yet, but, um, we'll, we'll

talk about some of those ideas.

Um, Yeah, that, you know, for
trying to improve an organization's

diversity, equity, and inclusion.

One of the things you can do is just
anonymize, anonymize those questions

so that that bias and, uh, is removed
and you get a little bit more, diverse

talent pool or diverse applicant
pool, I think is, is, is beneficial.

And we, we saw it, you know,
when we did that, we saw way more

diversity in the folks that not
only applied, but like ranked high.

Um, And it was, it was a, it was
a hope that we could do that.

Um, and uh, the couple of times we did
that, it, it seemed to be true, right?

We had a lot, a lot more diversity
in the, the top, the top section

of the, um, applicant pool.

Um, Chad pointed out, he wonders
if that is a, um, selection bias.

And because our application process isn't.

Uh, cover letter and resume and
is values oriented questions.

It tends to, tends to select
for people that are more values

oriented, which is fine, I think.

Like that's what we want anyways.

But, um, you know, I don't, I don't
know that, that it's exactly causal.

Um, I think it's possibly just more
of a selection, a selection bias.

Um, but yeah, it was
interesting to think about.

I'm excited to push on it some more.

want to talk with someone else about it.

Daila: Yes,

Jonathan: Who can we talk to?

I know we talked to, we, you said you
have a friend who's a HR professional.

I have somebody who's an HR professional.

Um, I also wanna talk with, uh, the person
who helped us define all of these values.

Um, she's, she's wonderful, Sadie.

Um, I wanna talk to her about it.

Do we think we could just even
just run it by those three people

before next time we record and see

like I know the HR people that, that I
would, the HR person that I would talk

to, um, sh she doesn't do, I don't think.

She does a lot of like,
tech, tech, HR stuff.

She's helped us on some things.

Um, But I don't think, I don't think
her standard clientele is tech.

Um, so I wouldn't mind sort of getting,
getting that insight from somebody outside

of tech cuz we talked to somebody in tech.

Um, we're tech, um, uh, I think
we can get some like Main Street,

main street type businesses,
um, through this HR consultant.

Uh, yeah.

Who, who do you think you
would be able to talk to

Daila: Yeah, I'll, I'll talk to
my, well, besides my HR Uhuh, I'll

talk to my HR person and then, I
don't know, let me think on it.

Jonathan: Okay.

We just renewed our Chamber
of Commerce membership.

Uh huh.

Maybe I should go to one of those finally.

I didn't go at all last year.

I wanted to, I just,
I didn't get a chance.

Huh.

Caleb: I didn't know we had a
membership that needed to be renewed.

Jonathan: Yeah, we bought one
last year when the, when they came

and did a cool presentation about
all the great things they do.

And I thought, ah, I love, I love what
they're doing and I wanna support this.

And then, and I want to

go

Caleb: go to any of them?

The mixers?

Jonathan: I, I didn't, um, I did, I did,
I did read some of the emails and I did,

I did fill out a couple of the surveys.

So I feel like value exchange
was maybe lopsided, but,

Caleb: I guess it depends how
much the membership is, I guess.

Jonathan: uh, I mean it's not cheap,
but it's not, It's not gads of

Caleb: I think you missed
out on all the free food.

I think that was the main.

Jonathan: I, I think you
have to pay for those.

I don't

know.

Uh, yeah, I don't

Caleb: discounted

Jonathan: So let's, yeah, let's,
uh, maybe I'll go and check out

some Chamber of Commerce folks and
see, and, and I probably get some

introductions too, some folks too.

Um, okay.

Let's see.

Let's see where this goes.

Daila: Sounds good.

I've

Jonathan: All right.

Daila loves her homework.

Daila: I do.

Jonathan: Okay, Caleb, sorry you
didn't do a lot of talking so you

can, uh, close us off and finish
with any kind of anecdote you want,

Caleb: Oh, any anecdote?

Jonathan: but you have to,
you have to close us off first

Caleb: Hmm.

Okay, I'll try and do that.

Jonathan: and quickly cuz I
gotta pee before my next meeting

Caleb: You've been listening
to the Robot Factory.

I've been your host, Caleb Sharp.

Daila: I've been Daila Duford.

Jonathan: and I've been Jonathan Bowers.

Caleb: I don't have any anecdotes.

I can't give anecdotes on

Jonathan: Ah,

Caleb: They just kind of,
they just kind of come to me.

Jonathan: okay.

Caleb: Wait, ordered a, okay.

Actually, anecdote, I, I sold a bunch
of virtual skins on a video game, so

like nothing real for, um, Like $700
and I bought a, a steam deck, which

is like a little portable computer
thing and playing video games.

Daila: what?

And you sold skins.

That's, I don't like that word.

I've never liked that word.

I get it.

But

Caleb: It's not,

Jonathan: Not Hannibal Lecter skins

Caleb: a,

for guns, like

Daila: Oh, for guns.

Caleb: They just make them look different.

And if they're worth hundreds of
dollars in this one specific game.

So that was there.

That's my anecdote.

I got a free steam deck for nothing.

Jonathan: Nice.

Daila: Wow.

Jonathan: Good job, Caleb.

Daila: Yes.

I'm very proud of you.