The Robot Factory

Jonathan: Welcome back
to The Robot Factory.

This is a podcast where we record
ourselves trying to build some

software and have it get acquired.

my usual co-hosts are not here
again, . Um, we've actually been kind

of terrible at recording recently,
but I have a guest, so Kristina

Lorson from Traverse, is joining us.

Give a little bit of a background
on on yourself, Kristina,

for anyone who's listening

Kristina: thank you for
having me here, Jonathan.

Uh, I have been in the music
industry since I was 20, which

was a very long time ago.

And, uh, as I've grown through
the ranks of different things that

I've done in my career from being
a box office manager to theater

manager to, uh, financial deals for.

Major bands, uh, while working
Philadelphia to being tour coordinator.

When I moved to Boston to, uh,
working festivals now in New Orleans

for 14 years, I have always loved
technology and I've always wanted to

find a way to make my job easier, and
so I am working on that right now.

Jonathan: Well, what, what was your
job then that, cause I mean, I don't,

I honestly don't know a ton of your
background, so this is, this is helpful.

Um, what was your job that you
didn't, that you need, you need

to make easier with technology?

Kristina: Well, when I first started at
the New Orleans Jazz and Heritage Festival

in 2009, I was, uh, the travel manager.

So I had to, uh, advance all
of the bands, all of the, uh,

headliners, all of the national acts.

We would provide hotel, air, uh, and
then we would do all of the local

ground transportation, which means we
provide it two from airport hotel, and.

And when I first started, all
I did was that, which was not,

that was a hundred plus bands.

It's not just that, but I did that
and I was not really happy with the

way the driver system was being run.

It's like I created this, this, great
beautiful thing that I handed over.

I called it my baby, and I would
hand it over to them, and then

they're the ones who would do
all the logistical part of it.

The, the drivers would be the ones
to go pick everybody up, et cetera.

So, they decided to
give that to me as well.

And when they did, I nearly had a heart
attack, uh, . Cause it was a lot of work.

And I said, I can do this in a way that
technology will make it easier because,

uh, we were using Excel spreadsheets
and other festivals at our level and.

Smaller.

Were using spreadsheets and whiteboards
to schedule their drivers, and there

was version control, and it was
just really messy and hard to keep

control of where the drivers were.

The driver would switch
around their schedule because

it worked better for them.

And so I started thinking
about how to use technology.

And so we have slowly created this,
uh, transportation management system

built specifically for live events
built very similarly to how a limo

service or car service has their
system built, built it without knowing

that we had basically copied it,
cuz I'd never seen that work before.

And so, I lost my partners that I had
during Covid who went off to other

projects because they knew there would
be no live events for a long time, and

they gifted me the software, thankfully.

And then I knew nothing about technology.

I really didn't understand
how the backend worked.

I knew the front end.

It was built around how I work.

And then, I got lost.

I, I would struggle.

I kept trying to figure out how
to do it, how to learn it, and I

could not wrap my head around it.

And I got burned by a couple of different,
um, of software people I brought in to

try to make it, spent a lot of money to
try to make it what I wanted it to be.

And then, um, I was searching on.

On YouTube as you do during Covid,
there was not much else to do.

So I'm looking at Covid, uh, during
Covid and I'm looking, and I see this

about the bubble and the no code,
um, frontier that was coming forward.

And I decided I would try it.

So I did a bootcamp, um, with somebody
I found off of, uh, the bubble community

and spent, um, 12 weeks rebuilding
the entire software with the help.

Coaches, um, on Bubble and, uh,
have used it for a couple of times

and now, I mean, it looks okay.

It looks like I built it and
now I'm coming to, to you guys

to streamline it and to make
it more graphically attractive.

And so that's, that's where we're at
right now with the hope of, um, taking it

just outside of my world and the people
I know who are using it to, um, a mass.

Hopefully next year.

Jonathan: Who, um, so who,
who has been using it so far?

Like, I mean, I know I know you are,
you are a, a user of the software

cuz you're using it.

So are, um, how, how does that work?

Like, does, does the, a festival sign
up and put their logistics people in

place and they, they use your software?

Kristina: Yeah, it, they sign a software
agreement and it's for one, one festival

only, and we give them access and I'll
build the shell for them, and then they're

in it and they go and they can build it.

It's all fairly straightforward across
the board, how you would build your,

your bands into the system, your
drivers in the system, your vehicles

in the system, and it just, um, shoots
the information across the board.

So when you are ready to assign your.

We have it so that it will tell you
what their last run was, how far

away it is from the new run, uh,
what type of vehicle they're in.

So you get an educated, uh, way of
assigning your drivers more efficiently,

where otherwise the festivals are
using a giant whiteboard and they use

spreadsheets with, um, they send a Google
form out to the band's manager, and the

band manager puts in what they need.

Transportation, and then that
has to be all sorted out.

And then a new spreadsheet just
for that person has to be sent out

and there's version control and
all of those things, with Traverse.

It's a live link, Bitly link,
for the most part that shoots

that information to the band.

So I give that to them and I
say, here's your transportation.

You can track your flight,
you can track your.

You can track the status of where
your people are at and you know

exactly what the driver's name,
the phone number, the vehicle type.

We could put the license plate
number for safety and all of those

things in there that goes to them.

And it's live.

So when we cancel something or add
something, they always have it.

There's no version control for it.

And the bands get it.

The drivers get it exactly the same way.

So there's no missing information of
like, I got that, but you didn't get that.

Oh, I forgot to do.

It just, it's a transparent way of sharing
that, that information across the board.

Jonathan: Nice.

how does this compare to.

Something like Uber, which like I I,
I've described, I've described this to

a few people, um, to some of my advisors
in, you know, close contacts and we've

talked about traverse and I said, yeah,
it's Uber, but for, for music festivals.

And I feel like I'm not doing it.

Like I'm really, really
simplifying things.

But, um, I am like, I mean, I don't,
I actually don't use ride sharing.

Uh, cause I, I live in a small
town and we don't really have that.

So I'm not super familiar with the
whole experience at all, but like, just

conceptually, for someone who, uh, doesn't
know about this world at all, how does

it compare with something like Uber?

Kristina: Similar in some aspects
where you're able to track where your

driver is and know when the driver
will arrive, those sorts of things.

Well, that's the goal.

We're not quite there yet,
but it's more about, uh, when

bands are coming in to perform.

They're either on a tour bus or they're
flying in and there could be 14 tour

buses and you know, private flights
and all of these different things.

So transportation for music festivals and.

Can get very complicated
when it comes to musicians.

So we make sure that we gather
the information that we need from

them, what their flight numbers
are, all of that information.

We feed it into the system and
that way we send it back to them.

I'll give you an example at Jazz
Fest and I, I can only throw out his

name because he got me my new job.

Now that I'm not really
at Jazz Fest anymore.

Uh, the tour manager for
the band, Nora Jones.

Uh, Came through.

He was the very last band that I needed.

I had 110 bands to advance and organize,
and he came in the day before their

arrival with 22 requests for transfers
the day before in this spreadsheet.

I took the time.

Built it into Traverse and sent it
back to him, and he just lost his mind.

He's like, this is amazing.

No one has ever been able
to do this for me before.

And it's flawless.

Like all the information I gave
to you is right back at me.

And he loved it.

And so we get a lot of good
reviews in that way because a lot.

The festivals as it stands, are so busy.

There's teams that just go from festival
to festival to festival, and they'll

bring their drivers with them as well
because there's no time in each city to

try to train up drivers and all of that.

So they're flying drivers in, um, and
giving them hotels and that to settle them

in to be the system for that festival.

They might not necessarily
know where everything is.

They're just there because of
their expertise with dealing

with the bands who can be

Jonathan: interesting.

Kristina: hard to handle.

So,

So my goal eventually is to get
that so that, that's why I like the

idea of the GPS within the system.

So the band, um, can keep track of the
drivers and we can keep track of the

drivers, but the drivers are able to go
from address to address without having

to go out of the system, out of Travers
and into the maps to figure out where

they're going and it'll tell them how far.

And all of those different things.

And so then the, the bands have
the driver information and the

driver has the band information.

So we try to keep that to be a
little more, um, uh, self run

so that we're not babysitting
that system all the way through.

It's like, here you go.

Here you go.

Everybody sees this
information and they run.

Jonathan: I hadn't, uh, yeah, I mean,
this, this world is so, so foreign to me.

The idea that they're bringing their own
driver and like, that's, that's wild.

And so that, so, so is that, is
that a capability of traverse at the

moment where, um, like the story you
just said of, uh, the band manager

that, that was so elated at the
results you were able to show him?

That's something that you can do
currently, is that you can support a band.

Bringing lots of their own people
and, and own logistic support.

Kristina: Well, it's not so much
the bands bringing their own people.

It's the transportation
teams for each festival.

They travel to each fest, they
travel, festival to festival,

um, to do this because it can be,
it's probably one of the most.

Overlooked part of a backend of a
music festival because the, festival

directors aren't paying attention to it.

And it only, only when something
goes wrong does anybody

want to complain about it.

Uh, . So it's something that's been
overlooked, but there's a lot of.

Component to that of having
a transportation system that

is both efficient and safe.

And I, and we might have touched
on this before about, um, when

they had the shooting in Las Vegas,

Jonathan: Mm,

Kristina: um, at the country festival
a few years ago, and a few people died.

Um, my brother is a police detective
in Vegas and two of his friends who

were off duty policemen were killed

Jonathan: Yeah.

That's awful.

Kristina: And I started thinking, How it
feels to have you, like, can you imagine

your team, Jonathan, you know, scattered
throughout the office and you need to

know where they are during an emergency.

So I want to be able to take Traverse
and its capabilities to track people,

uh, to go away from just efficiency,
but to safety, to be able to, uh,

see your team on a map, especially
when you're thinking about if you've

ever been to a music festival,
security spread all over the place.

So even at Astro World, when.

The, the compression of the, of the,
of the audience, we would be able to

have it on a map so that you would know
where all your security people are.

So you can say, oh, we're
a little light over here.

Let's move some more people
over, and that sort of thing.

Or if there's a weather event, Um,
which happens a lot in New Orleans.

Imagine, uh, you know, where there's
a rainstorm comes through and then we

can tell on a map where everybody is.

Currently we're doing that through
a GPS tracker in the vehicle.

My goal is to do that by
tracking them by their phone,

Jonathan: That's, that's awesome.

I'm really interested in these, in these
problem areas that exist behind the scenes

that people don't, don't know about.

Can you share like a, what, I mean,
not a go's story necessarily, but like

what happens when, when this doesn't go
right, , like when like, like the, the,

the story of, of you sharing this, um, all
the details with this band manager back

to him and him saying, this is amazing.

Um, what's the, what's
the other side of that?

Like, what happens when
this, you know, this

spreadsheet is, is totally outta whack
and somebody, somebody's not following it.

Like, what, what goes wrong?

Kristina: bands don't
appear at the festival.

Bands don't make it there, right?

We're responsible for getting, uh,
band and crew to and from the, the

venue and hotel, or the tour buses or
wherever they might be, hotel, airport.

So if something goes
wrong, Uh, there's delays.

Bands are delayed going on stage.

Bands are delayed being picked up at the
airport, which makes everybody angry.

Uh, and so it goes beyond that to
being often the first, the first

physical contact that any of the
bands have with the festival are the.

The is the driving team who brings

them in?

Yeah.

So that we, that's why we want that
to be as efficient as possible and as

safe as possible so that the driver
will now, um, the band will now see the

driver photo in their report when we
finish our upgrades that we're doing,

uh, and sort of avoid some of those,
uh, safety issues, safety concerns

Jonathan: you don't think of it,
but yeah, that driver is the first.

I mean, even when you
go on a holiday, right?

Like I go on a holiday and you
get your shuttle or whatever

to, to wherever you're going.

And, um, sometimes

Kristina: a, you get a bad Uber driver.

It's a bad experience that will
set you, it will set the tone

Jonathan: Yeah.

Or, or I mean, conversely you
get a good one and it feels,

it just sort of sets it up.

Like, this was, this was great.

Like, I feel excited to be here.

Yeah.

No, that's, that's neat, huh?

I hadn't thought of that.

So how many, how many festivals
have you used Traverse at?

Kristina: Uh, four,

Jonathan: Okay.

Kristina: four festivals and I
haven't tried to sell it out yet.

That's, uh, through word of mouth.

Friends.

I spent the first part of covid, uh,
net, uh, networking and workshopping with

friends I had in the industry about how I
should do this, how, how I should sell it,

how I should make it work for everybody.

Not in my world because it's built
around my brain and how I would work.

And so I wanted to make it more generic.

So I did a lot of work shopping through,
uh, to make sure that it worked.

And so, uh, new Orleans Jazz Festival
uses it, the Monterey Jazz Festival,

uh, Newport, uh, Folk and Jazz
Festival, uh, Pilgrimage Festival.

We had a.

Um, film festival.

New Orleans Film Festival used it early
on, and so that's where we wanna go

towards that is film festivals, comic
cons, anything with live entertainment

that you're moving around or just people,
even staff shuttles and those sorts of

things where you can give people the
ability to assign themselves a seat on the

shuttle so they know they're not gonna get
to the shuttle and the shuttle is full.

That sort of stuff.

Jonathan: Just as a, for some context,
I'm not, uh, I'm West Coast Canada,

not , east Coast, United States, so I
don't know any of these festivals at all.

Um, how, like are these major festivals?

Are they.

Kristina: Uh, well, new Orleans Jazz
and Heritage Festival, Jazz Fest is one

of the oldest festivals in the world.

Uh, One of them.

Monterey is the oldest festival in
the world, longest running festival,

and Newport Jazz and Newport Folk
are back to back weekends in the same

location that has been the industry's
festival of the year for several years.

It's small, but it's very intimate
and very, uh, savvy in the way

that they, they promote themselves.

So these are all word of.

So eventually I would like to, I'm
trying to get to, with Amber and your

team, um, get it elevated so that I
can push it out to other festivals.

Jonathan: Yeah.

That's awesome.

I mean, I, word of mouth seems like,
It would be really strong here, like to

have, to have the feedback that you're,
getting seems like, you know, it seems

like, seems like you've really hit, like
hit a chord here with some folks and

Kristina: I I think so.

I, I had, uh, one, I dunno
if I told you this story.

I was working Monterey this
summer, just in September.

And Monterey is in a
wealthy area of California.

It's the oldest festival in the world.

And so the lot of the volunteers are,
uh, wealthy patrons who just wanna be

helpful in the festival because the,
the money goes to charity for children.

And, uh, so the drivers there, there's
that driver system was about 12 drivers.

Wasn't huge, but, but enough.

Uh, and one of the drivers happens to be a
high powered lawyer who said, I love this.

This is the best that we've ever
been able to do this in all of

these years I've been working here.

Uh, how can I help you?

Can I invest?

Do you need money?

, like, yes, yes.

To all that.

Oops,

Jonathan: that's amazing.

Um, to have

Kristina: So it, it,
it's not even the band.

It's like everybody who sees
it goes, how is this not, how

has this not happened before?

How has this not.

How have we gotten this long without this?

Jonathan: How I, I, I wonder why like,
sometimes, sometimes it feels like

there's some ideas that after the fact
you're like, yeah, that's obvious.

Like, of course this makes sense.

but.

Before that, it's not so
obvious, and I, I wonder why.

Like, why, what is your suspicion?

Why hasn't this been done?

Kristina: I think everybody during
festival season are so busy and you sort

of get your routine down and there's
no time to figure anything else out.

I'm lucky because I worked for Jazz Fest
round, so I had plenty of downtime to be

like, Hey, how can I make my life better?

Instead of just having to be
so busy that you, you can only

do how you know how to do it.

So part of Traverse.

Taking that away because the
teams don't have to be in the

same room or sharing Google sheets
and all that version control.

I can advance, um, an entire festival
without ever stepping foot on the ground.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Kristina: I can do it from home
and then everybody sees that.

Everybody shares it.

Um, I can, will be able to, to do it
on my phone, so a, I'm more mobile so I

can wake up at four in the morning, deal
with an issue on the phone without ever

having to get up and get to my computer.

Jonathan: occasionally, I've run into
a few, a few, um, people that have.

COVID has really showed them
how the way they were doing

things is like, isn't scalable.

Like it works fine when you can all be in
the office and you all can all look at the

same whiteboard, but as soon as you have
to work from home, everything falls apart.

Um, has, has that do, do you think
that played played a role here where

Covid really showed, showed what, what
wasn't, what really wasn't working?

Kristina: Yeah, I think so.

I, I, I would hope that people had
more time to figure out how to make

their systems more streamlined.

Uh, but I, I think it does show
that you don't have to be in this.

Same room to work together.

And the, and festivals can save
money by not having to bring all

this personnel to work as a team
to look at the same whiteboard,

Jonathan: Yeah.

Kristina: they will take all that
information that they get through their

spreadsheets, put it onto labels, and
then put those labels on the sticky notes.

And that's how they're
assigning their drivers.

They, they get a big grided, uh,
whiteboard with the times, and they

just start Ari signing drivers This.

And so if you're not at that
board, you're blind, you can't see

Jonathan: Yeah.

Yeah.

Huh.

Kristina: is what Traverse was
so great is that you could do it.

I could track the, I could
track the driver off my phone.

I can see where everything is.

I can call the person without having
to go to my email to find out what the

phone number is for the tour manager.

Because the tour manager information is
in there and doable on the, on the phone.

So yeah, it's, it's a game
changer for me as a, as the person

who dealt with transportation.

And then it's also sort of a game
changer for bands because now if

they're on a festival circuit and
traverses used at all those festivals,

they just have one place to go to
check all their, all of their transpo.

And they're not having to digging
through emails to find out what's.

It's all right there.

They can, as long as they're
attached to any festival, they'd

be able to see all the festivals
in all their transpo in one spot.

Jonathan: Hmm.

Yeah, it sounds it sounds amazing.

It sounds like, um, you know, some,
sometimes when we, we work with a,

work with a client who comes from
a, I dunno, like more brick and

mortar, brick and mortar background.

And we show them a few things and, uh,
we kind of take them for granted because

we're a tech company and we're like,
yeah, this is, this is how we work.

And they're amazed at.

Like how, how can the stuff be digital?

Like this is, this is amazing.

And it feels like, or it seems like
you're maybe maybe finding some of

that, uh, with some of your, some of
the people that you're working with.

so there's some, there's some
efficiencies to be gained by making this

a digital, product, digital processes.

I think that's all very valuable.

Like some cost savings in, uh,
for festivals not having to, to

run maybe as large a team, um,
and reducing some of those costs.

What, like what, how big is
this business, do you think?

How big could this be for you?

, for

Kristina: Yeah.

Jonathan: like, the problem sounds
pretty severe, but like, is it

severe enough that people wanna.

Kristina: I think that festival
directors, festival companies spend

a lot of money on ticketing, a lot of
money on the, the consumer side of it.

Uh, you know, they're streaming
capabilities, all of those things.

And they haven't spent so much money
on making sure that the festival is

efficient and there's not a lot of
softwares out there for festival.

Uh, festival work, um, the ones they've
come and gone, there's one left.

I don't know if I should say them
on here, but there's one left

and they, they, during covid.

Because they weren't making money on the
events, went towards streaming platforms

and aren't putting any effort into what
is, what is built for the live events.

Jonathan: Tell me a little bit more
about, these, uh, , these volunteers that

you have that want to give you money.

how does that work?

How do I do that?

Kristina: It was, it was crazy.

Um.

Uh, completely unexpected and I'm
completely not ready for it yet.

I'm like, uh, let me, let's talk again
in a few months when I have a better

idea of where my product's heading.

Cause right now he just saw
what I had built myself and.

So, and was already impressed
by it, but he was still like,

how do you monetize this?

Where's your audience?

And all of those things.

So those, those questions are now the
ones that I have to start to be really

serious about I had in the past, but
truly, um, festival life has changed.

Everything has changed.

Um, so now I'm trying to
figure out do I want to.

Build this company myself, or do
I wanna build this product to sell

off to AAG or Live Nation or both
and have separate, have them have

separate things because they can
take what would be expensive for me.

They can take, if they have 40,000
events in a year, the cost of that gets

amortized across the board and will
cost them almost nothing to have it.

And then they can take it and, and,
you know, we can customize it for them

Jonathan: 40,000 festivals a

Kristina: Not, not so much.

Not just festivals, but they do concerts.

You know, even a stadium, a stadium
festival or an arena gig all have

to have a driver system as well.

Even if it's just a handful of them with
column runners that are out, you know,

picking up the, the bands from the hotels
or doing errands and all of those things.

Every single concert
has at least one runner.

That is assigned.

And so if you can take that across the
board and not just be festivals, but

to be stadium shows and, and arenas
and all of those sorts of places, then

the cost of it is very small for them.

Jonathan: that's, yeah.

That's wild.

Huh?

What I , I love, I love getting introduced
to these new, these new industries

that I don't know anything about.

Um, it's been, it's been fun to,
fun to follow along with you.

so what is the, so I, I do wanna talk
a little bit about, um, the fact that

you, uh, well you can talk as much or as
little about the history of the software

prior to you building it yourself.

Um, but I am curious to understand
like, what, what happened there.

And you can.

Be detailed and we can decide to cut
that later if you want, or whatever.

Or just say like, no, just let's just talk
about you taking your bootcamp forward.

I love hearing the story because I think
any, any time a founder can take, take

control of the reins on the product,
I think the product is better for it.

Um, because you get to understand
the problem a lot more.

You know, maybe, maybe there's,
like, it's not, as nice as you

want it to be, or doesn't have
the, the polish that you'd like.

Um, but you at least understand
where all the pain points are.

One, because you built it and also
because you, you were using it, right?

Like, you weren't just, you weren't just
building it for someone else to use.

You were building it, you were using
it, you were, you were fixing it.

Um, just maybe talk to me a
little bit more about that,

that that whole experience.

Kristina: well the first version
was built for specifically for me.

Um, and the team that was brought
together is a friend of mine who worked

at, uh, university of Pennsylvania.

And I told him that I needed this.

He's like, I have people,
I've got students that would

love to help you with this.

Let's do this.

And so, uh, they formed a company and
then worked with me on the Jazz Fest side.

And then they said, look, we think
we can make this into a product.

Come be our partner.

Jonathan: mm.

Kristina: said, okay.

Um, and so we continued to,
they completely revamped it.

The first version that we had
ever done was so terrible.

in the hindsight was so excited
for what we built because it was

not a spreadsheet, and it, and it
worked okay, but it was like the

Flintstones, you know, versus the Jets.

So bad, uh, when you look at
it later on down the line.

And it was so rudimentary entry,
but I was so excited for it.

And then that, that they
decided to actually really

go forward with it and they.

Before I even knew they had revamped
the entire thing, put it onto a

different platform in terms that you
would understand that I never could.

And they said, we want
to try to sell this.

Come be a partner.

So I did and we really were getting very
close to, um, pushing it out the door

in 2020 and then Covid hit and those.

Partners had families and they said we're,
we've gotta take our time and go do other

things that are gonna be more immediate.

I can't put any more
time into this right now.

Um, and so, okay, so they, like I
said, they gifted me the company

and so I was like, this is great.

At least I still have this as functioning.

But then I started getting all the Amazon.

Warnings that this is wrong
and this needs, and all of

this needs to be updated.

And I didn't understand anything
about how Amazon worked, um,

with and where everything was
stored and all of those things.

And I tried to learn it and got
burnt twice by, software developers

that I, I asked to take on the work.

Uh, one was a team that told me it would
take five weeks to get it done, and

it took them almost seven months and,
and kept telling me, and I was getting

closer and closer and closer to what
I thought would be the next season.

And then that season didn't happen, you
know, no festivals happened in 2021.

Uh, so then all of my money went to
this very small piece that they fixed

and they didn't fix anything else.

And at that, And, and
then I got burnt by a guy.

I tried to have, uh, do my app
who, uh, end up being a scammer.

Jonathan: Oh

Kristina: Uh, I don't
wanna talk about that one.

But, uh, so that's sort of how I went
into, quite honestly, looking on the

internet, trying to figure out what to do.

Do I wanna save this?

Do I wanna.

dump it, what do I wanna do?

And that's when I saw that bubble,
uh, all just watching bubble tutorials

and I'm like, I wanna try this.

So I, I went to the bootcamp
and spent 16 hours a day for

three months, just like they said.

It's very ambitious.

What you're doing is very a.

But we're gonna try to make it work.

So truly 16 hours a day, nearly seven
days a week, um, toiling over this

because I had no technical experience.

But you know, with
bubble you don't need it.

But bubble, you still need to be very
linear and very detailed in your thinking.

And I, and I spend a lot of time.

Twist myself into that pretzel for it,
uh, and came out of it with a viable

product two days before I needed
to use it for Jazz Fest, . I mean,

Jonathan: Wow.

Kristina: they're, they're like, it
was like the old TV shows where they've

got the hook and they're pulling
the person off the stage because I'm

like, I just need this, this, this.

They're like, no, we're done
with you at five o'clock.

We're done with you.

And so, and then I, as soon as I
hit published it and I put it out

into the world, I did a quick video
for my jazz fest, uh, directors

and said, okay, here we go.

Let's do this.

And, uh, was ready used it.

That was for this year.

This was, um, in April.

I started the bootcamp in
January and uh, at the end of

March I had a viable product.

Jonathan: That's amazing.

And so, so do you have now like, uh,
jazz Fest and Monterey and these other,

these other music festival festivals,
they're lined up for next year as well?

So you've got, you've got some customers,
um, and you want to build, uh, some

additional features and, uh, incorporate
some different design so that you can.

Push it out even, even
further, even harder.

Um, what kind of goals do you have
for the, uh, the upcoming season?

Kristina: The goal is by, uh, the
next season for Jazz Fest, cuz that's

the first one of the year for me is
to get rid of the GPS trackers in

the vehicle and have a way to track
the drivers through their phone.

Uh, either through an an app, um, or
a wrapped app so that we can give them

all the information they need and to
be able to track them through their

phone because that leads further into
tracking teams for other departments

and the broader sense of that.

So that is my, truly my biggest.

Goal, uh, I've seen some beautiful
renderings of the update for the graphics.

Such is super exciting for me.

Uh, really your team has done a
fabulous job and so, uh, getting

that to look like it wasn't a
high school or college project.

for of cause function functionality.

Fine.

But, and I mean, I, it's not terrible.

My, my husband makes fun of me
cuz I'm like, it's not terrible.

I'm like, but it feels like,
like it's a high school project

versus like the real deal.

Right.

It's like amateur hour to the, let,
let's take this to the professionals.

Let's just take it to the professionals.

Uh, but

Jonathan: but like, but
it did the job, right?

It did what it needed to do.

And got like, you got some
customers and, uh, some,

Kristina: people who wanna spend so money.

Yeah.

Jonathan: that's amazing.

So it didn't need, it didn't
need all that other stuff, right?

Kristina: No, it doesn't need it.

But I wanted, what was my
vision in my head to be, what,

what I see in front of me.

And so that's very important for me.

I think, um, the more, the
more professional, the more

streamlined it looks, the more
value people attached to it.

Um,

Jonathan: Yeah, I, I agree.

I think, you know, I think there's a
certain, um, certain class of customer

that can forgive some of that stuff
because their pain is so severe.

They don't care.

Uh, they don't care.

They just want, they want that,
they want that pain to go away.

Um, so if it.

Looks not to your vision, they're fine.

Um, but I think, uh, some of the, some of
the customers on the fringe, um, they're,

you know, they're gonna be looking
for something that solves the pain,

but also, um, is, is enjoyable to use.

Um,

Kristina: Yeah, I, I like
to keep the colors light.

I like to keep it very streamlined.

Not a lot of buttons to
push all of those things.

I try to bring it down to as, as
simple a form as I could on my own

because, um, I don't want to have
people feeling like it's too hard to.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Kristina: I'm just gonna
stick with what I'm doing.

This is too much.

Um, because what I'm trying to do is
to ease their pain because they're not

having to build all of those spreadsheets.

The share you build it in.

You don't have to build a
spreadsheet for someone else.

To build another spreadsheet off
of it, another spreadsheet off of.

So, um, you know, get them early enough.

So if I can be ready by March, then
I can go to, you know, those smaller,

you know, barely known festivals like
Coachella, , you know, Bonnaroo, you know,

those, those small ones and, and get.

And get them to use it.

Um, you know, so I wanna be, I, I want
this year to be, the year that I, I at

least get 10 more, 10 more festivals
to use it, because then the value of

that goes up for me to be able to go
to Live Nation or AEG and say, here

you need this for your entire system.

Jonathan: So the, the, the theme of
this podcast is we, we are trying

to build little, little things,
little pieces of software that we

wanna sell, is that also your goal?

In 10 years time, what do you hope
your involvement with traverse is?

Kristina: I will say that in 10 years,
I would like for it to be sold AEG or

Live Nation, um, with a team in place.

Uh, much I would love to do it much
the same way I'm doing my departure

from Jazz Fest after 14 years.

I'm consulting for the next two years.

Uh, they're paying me to be
available, uh, to whatever questions,

uh, my replacement has and to
help build the revamp and build.

The driver team, um, but
without all of that labor.

So I would love to be able to sell it off
and still be a consultant to the company.

Uh, you know, that, that I spent so much
time trying to figure out how to make it

my vision that I haven't spent a lot of
time figuring out what the next step is.

Cause during Covid, it's been
so hard to see that next step.

We were so excited to get
festivals back last year.

that it, it's hard to look forward,
from this moment in time still for me.

Jonathan: Yeah, Yeah,

Kristina: So that's my next, that's
my next step is to figure out, okay,

now use the brain for something else.

Cuz I don't have to be
the tech person anymore.

But I will say my favorite thing is,
That I was able to go in and make

adjustments to the, to software.

When we were struggling with Monterey.

I was, I loved being able to go in
and make those changes or understand

why things worked the way they did.

Like, oh, that's the problem.

Let me, let me fix that.

Um, that's been my
biggest, my biggest joy.

From going from not knowing the back
end and what, uh, agile and what, you

know, all of these different platforms,
job, all those things meant to being

able to go in and say, oh, that
one, that one thing is what's wrong.

Let's fix that.

That, that's been my greatest joy.

So I'm moving away from that tech
brain to business brain next,

right?

Jonathan: I'm a technical person as
well, and I don't love how much, how

much I've left behind . You know,
I'm still trying to like, grasp onto

getting inside things and tweaking.

so I, you know, empathize with that.

Um, I hope you don't have
to give it up entirely.

I hope he can still, you know,
still still get in there and like

tweak things and adjust dials.

You know, move some things around.

Kristina: I would enjoy that
without the daily grind of that.

Yeah.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Do you know anyone at Coachella ? Are

they Oh, okay.

I'm, I'm just so, I'm so curious.

Like, you know, that's, that's a
festival that, that I recognize , right?

Kristina: yeah.

I figured she would.

Yeah.

Jonathan: Are they doing the same thing?

Are they?

They got spreadsheets and whiteboards and

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

Kristina: But they're, they're part of
that team of, there's a transportation

team, like I guess there's technically
a company now who just goes from

festival to festival to festival
for both Live Nation a they both

have their sort of, their own teams.

Who will, who will do those.

So yes, and that's exactly
what they're using.

Um, and I have good ins at
both, both of those companies.

Jonathan: Wow, this is wild.

This is amazing.

Kristina: so fingers crossed that it's
not too hard to get in front of those

people.

And with, with my history with
Jazz Fest, AEG owns half of Jazz

Fest.

So all of those big wigs come
every year to the festival.

So yeah, we'll see what happens.

Jonathan: Is, is there any, um,
network effects to traverse?

I mean the word of mouth is great, but
is, you know, if, if there are teams that

are moving from festival to festival,
is, is having af festival involved,

uh, does it make it more enticing
for another festival to be involved?

Because there's some, there's
some shared economies there.

Kristina: Yeah, shared economy,
shared teams, because now you know

the reason why AEG has their own
sort of festival team that goes.

I'm sorry.

Transportation goes festival.

Festival is because those
people know all of the band,

Jonathan: yeah,

Kristina: it tends to be the same bands
during festival season and so they can

just go along from festival to festival.

So it's helpful for the festival
to have purchased Traverse in order

for those, those teams to use it.

Cause you wouldn't wanna sell it to
the transportation team without it.

If I'm not selling it to off to
the, to the big eyes in the sky.

Um, then you.

The festival to own it, not the
transportation coordinator, because then

you're controlling the history there.

There's a lot of history being saved in
their contact information, um, schedules

so that you would know how many vans
when Dave Matthews comes through.

How many vans did you have to give them?

What was their loading look like?

What did their load out look like?

You have some history there that's
valuable for the festival team.

Jonathan: Super cool.

Okay, well this has been,
I'm, I'm super excited.

I'm so excited that , that you found
us, like, thank you for reaching out.

I'm really excited to see where this
can go, uh, over the next few months.

we're gonna check in again for sure.

Like, I wanna, I wanna check in
and see, see how things have, have.

Um, at any frequency you want, , if
you wanna come on and we wanna talk

about this every week, that might be
a bit much, but, um, if you want to

check in again, every, uh, every so
often, we, we would love to do that.

but, to finish off, as someone, as someone
who's gone in and, try to solve a problem

for yourself and created this, this really
interesting product and company and this.

Interesting future
opportunity for yourself.

What advice would you give to other
aspiring, I dunno, founders or

Kristina: Do your re research,

Jonathan: do your

Kristina: do, do the research.

It's, it's explore all the options
if you're putting your head down and

you're not looking up to see what's
out there, you're not gonna find it.

So if I had just given up or.

Sort of decided this was just gonna
be what it was gonna be without any

sort of expansion or any sort of pie
in the sky dream of what it could be.

I wouldn't be where I am right now.

Um, you know, having to take the effort
to rebuild it in, its in a different form.

, uh, changed me in a lot of ways
professionally, personally, mentally,

uh, with the way that I do things.

And so I think just, uh, just like
anything in life, when you're looking

down, you're not seeing what's ahead of
you and, and because you think you've

got the one great idea, doesn't mean
that someone else doesn't have the same

idea of doing it in a different way.

And just to be aware of what's
out there in the community.

Jonathan: Yeah.

That's awesome.

Yeah.

Keep your eyes up.

Are your ear ears.

What is the ? I, I missed the metaphor.

Ah,

Kristina: Eyes up.

Eyes up ears.

Jonathan: Yeah.

Kristina: up.

No, that's not anything

Jonathan: No, that's
not Uh, anyways, well,

Kristina: just make it.

up as we go.

Jonathan: Yeah, just make it up, . Well,
thanks so much for, for sitting in.

Um, it was lovely to chat.

Um, if people want to find out about
you or Traverse, where do they go?

Kristina: There is nowhere for that right?

Yet.

Jonathan: Oh, okay.

Kristina: Yeah, I, I had abandoned,
uh, everything of the old Traverse.

I, I closed down the old Traverse company
and I started the new, and I've been so

busy working on the tech that I have, not,
because everything's been word of mouth, I

have not made any sort of new website yet.

Jonathan: Got it.

Okay.

Um, are you active on social media?

If someone wants to say hi.

Kristina: Uh, yeah, I'm in Lincoln.

Jonathan: Okay.

Kristina: LinkedIn for sure.

Yeah,

I, I,

Jonathan: Lars.

Kristina: Christina Lorson Little.

I think I'm, I've got
all three names on there

Jonathan: Okay.

Okay.

I'll link, I'll link to it
in, uh, in the show notes.

Thanks for hanging out.

Kristina: Thanks.

It was fun.

Jonathan: You've been
listening to The Robot Factory.

we really hope that we can see
you next week or hope, hope

to be in your ears next week.

Oh my goodness.

It's been so long since I've done this.

I can't remember how to do it.

Thanks for listening to The Robot Factory.

We'll chat with you next week.

Bye.